Truth - Revision history

Fractalguy at 09:15, 6 July 2025

2025-07-06T09:15:31Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:15, 6 July 2025
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	== Does Objective Truth Exist? ==		== Does Objective Truth Exist? ==
	[[File:Truth-kills-let-them-die.jpg\|thumb\|255x255px\|[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=761gFasivnA&list=PLLHyHi7NUwSamE8YEEmIf43f6u4PkDEXC&t=168s Truth kills, but who's buying?]]]		[[File:Truth-kills-let-them-die.jpg\|thumb\|255x255px\|[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=761gFasivnA&list=PLLHyHi7NUwSamE8YEEmIf43f6u4PkDEXC&t=168s Truth kills, but who's buying?]]]
	This short video is a good example of the argument that [[subjective]] [[reality]] takes priority over the objective, and uses the [[placebo effect]] as an example. However, there is still an objective reality in the [[brain]] that produces that experience from the action of [[neurons]], and the [[placebo effect]] doesn't just make you "feel" better, it produces chemical changes in the body. Otherwise there would be nothing to feel! Plus, it has been shown that honest [[placebos]] are often just as effective, implying that it may not be necessary to [[believe]] our myths [[literally]] for their [[metanarrative]] to still be powerful.		This short video is a good example of the argument that [[subjective]] [[reality]] takes priority over the objective, and uses the [[placebo effect]] as an example. However, there is still an objective reality in the [[brain]] that produces that experience from the action of [[neurons]], and the [[placebo effect]] doesn't just make you "feel" better, it produces chemical changes in the body. Otherwise there would be nothing to feel! Plus, it has been shown that honest [[placebos]] are often just as effective, implying that it may not be necessary to [[believe]] our myths [[literally]] for their [[metanarrative]] to still be powerful. <blockquote>''"Truth cannot contradict truth"'' -[[wikipedia:Averroes\|Averroes]] </blockquote>The fact that our experience of [[subjective]] [[reality]] can be changed by our [[beliefs]] is not evidence that [[reality]] itself is [[subjective]], but that is the conclusion many people draw from it.

	The fact that our experience of [[subjective]] [[reality]] can be changed by our [[beliefs]] is not evidence that [[reality]] itself is [[subjective]], but that is the conclusion many people draw from it.

	To quote [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rbKWh2-KZg C. Thi Nguyen], "''I'm [[The Gambler\|more sure]] about the existence of this coffee cup than I am about my ability to understand complex [[philosophical]] arguments against it''" (see [[The Gambler]]).		To quote [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rbKWh2-KZg C. Thi Nguyen], "''I'm [[The Gambler\|more sure]] about the existence of this coffee cup than I am about my ability to understand complex [[philosophical]] arguments against it''" (see [[The Gambler]]).

Fractalguy at 13:19, 21 February 2025

2025-02-21T13:19:00Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:19, 21 February 2025
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	[[File:Truth-beauty-and-beauty-truth-ode-grecian-urn-fractal-aesthetics.jpg\|thumb\|It's not true because it's beautiful, it's beautiful because it's true]]		[[File:Truth-beauty-and-beauty-truth-ode-grecian-urn-fractal-aesthetics.jpg\|thumb\|It's not true because it's beautiful, it's beautiful because it's true. Also, [[evidence]].]]
	Is it important to you that your [[beliefs]] are [[wikipedia:Subjectivity_and_objectivity_(philosophy)\|objectively]] true? Or do you care more about whether they are [[emotionally]] satisfying? Or whether they conform to the [[Cultural norms\|norms]] of your [[in-group]]?		Is it important to you that your [[beliefs]] are [[wikipedia:Subjectivity_and_objectivity_(philosophy)\|objectively]] true? Or do you care more about whether they are [[emotionally]] satisfying? Or whether they conform to the [[Cultural norms\|norms]] of your [[in-group]]?

Fractalguy at 23:12, 10 February 2025

2025-02-10T23:12:04Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:12, 10 February 2025
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	== Does Objective Truth Exist? ==		== Does Objective Truth Exist? ==
	[[File:Truth-kills-let-them-die.jpg\|thumb\|255x255px\|[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=761gFasivnA&list=PLLHyHi7NUwSamE8YEEmIf43f6u4PkDEXC&~~index~~=3 Truth kills, but who's buying?]]]		[[File:Truth-kills-let-them-die.jpg\|thumb\|255x255px\|[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=761gFasivnA&list=PLLHyHi7NUwSamE8YEEmIf43f6u4PkDEXC&t=168s Truth kills, but who's buying?]]]
	This short video is a good example of the argument that [[subjective]] [[reality]] takes priority over the objective, and uses the [[placebo effect]] as an example. However, there is still an objective reality in the [[brain]] that produces that experience from the action of [[neurons]], and the [[placebo effect]] doesn't just make you "feel" better, it produces chemical changes in the body. Otherwise there would be nothing to feel! Plus, it has been shown that honest [[placebos]] are often just as effective, implying that it may not be necessary to [[believe]] our myths [[literally]] for their [[metanarrative]] to still be powerful.		This short video is a good example of the argument that [[subjective]] [[reality]] takes priority over the objective, and uses the [[placebo effect]] as an example. However, there is still an objective reality in the [[brain]] that produces that experience from the action of [[neurons]], and the [[placebo effect]] doesn't just make you "feel" better, it produces chemical changes in the body. Otherwise there would be nothing to feel! Plus, it has been shown that honest [[placebos]] are often just as effective, implying that it may not be necessary to [[believe]] our myths [[literally]] for their [[metanarrative]] to still be powerful.

Fractalguy: /* Does Objective Morality Exist? */

2025-02-10T23:10:54Z

Does Objective Morality Exist?

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:10, 10 February 2025
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	== Does Objective Truth Exist? ==		== Does Objective Truth Exist? ==
			[[File:Truth-kills-let-them-die.jpg\|thumb\|255x255px\|[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=761gFasivnA&list=PLLHyHi7NUwSamE8YEEmIf43f6u4PkDEXC&index=3 Truth kills, but who's buying?]]]
	This short video is a good example of the argument that [[subjective]] [[reality]] takes priority over the objective, and uses the [[placebo effect]] as an example. However, there is still an objective reality in the [[brain]] that produces that experience from the action of [[neurons]], and the [[placebo effect]] doesn't just make you "feel" better, it produces chemical changes in the body. Otherwise there would be nothing to feel! Plus, it has been shown that honest [[placebos]] are often just as effective, implying that it may not be necessary to [[believe]] our myths [[literally]] for their [[metanarrative]] to still be powerful.		This short video is a good example of the argument that [[subjective]] [[reality]] takes priority over the objective, and uses the [[placebo effect]] as an example. However, there is still an objective reality in the [[brain]] that produces that experience from the action of [[neurons]], and the [[placebo effect]] doesn't just make you "feel" better, it produces chemical changes in the body. Otherwise there would be nothing to feel! Plus, it has been shown that honest [[placebos]] are often just as effective, implying that it may not be necessary to [[believe]] our myths [[literally]] for their [[metanarrative]] to still be powerful.

	The fact that our experience of [[subjective]] [[reality]] can be changed by our [[beliefs]] is not evidence that [[reality]] itself is [[subjective]], but that is the conclusion many people draw from it. To quote [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rbKWh2-KZg C. Thi Nguyen], "I'm [[The Gambler\|more sure]] about the existence of this coffee cup than I am about my ability to understand complex [[philosophical]] arguments against it" (see [[The Gambler]]).		The fact that our experience of [[subjective]] [[reality]] can be changed by our [[beliefs]] is not evidence that [[reality]] itself is [[subjective]], but that is the conclusion many people draw from it.

			To quote [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rbKWh2-KZg C. Thi Nguyen], "''I'm [[The Gambler\|more sure]] about the existence of this coffee cup than I am about my ability to understand complex [[philosophical]] arguments against it''" (see [[The Gambler]]).
	{{#ev:youtube\|https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBU1K-HmP1M\|\|center\|Is there an objective reality outside of our beliefts?\|frame}}		{{#ev:youtube\|https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBU1K-HmP1M\|\|center\|Is there an objective reality outside of our beliefts?\|frame}}
	<br>This video presents a more [[Rational\|rationalist]] perspective.		<br>This video presents a more [[Rational\|rationalist]] perspective.

Fractalguy: /* Does Objective Truth Exist? */

2025-01-06T12:25:33Z

Does Objective Truth Exist?

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:25, 6 January 2025
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	This short video is a good example of the argument that [[subjective]] [[reality]] takes priority over the objective, and uses the [[placebo effect]] as an example. However, there is still an objective reality in the [[brain]] that produces that experience from the action of [[neurons]], and the [[placebo effect]] doesn't just make you "feel" better, it produces chemical changes in the body. Otherwise there would be nothing to feel! Plus, it has been shown that honest [[placebos]] are often just as effective, implying that it may not be necessary to [[believe]] our myths [[literally]] for their [[metanarrative]] to still be powerful.		This short video is a good example of the argument that [[subjective]] [[reality]] takes priority over the objective, and uses the [[placebo effect]] as an example. However, there is still an objective reality in the [[brain]] that produces that experience from the action of [[neurons]], and the [[placebo effect]] doesn't just make you "feel" better, it produces chemical changes in the body. Otherwise there would be nothing to feel! Plus, it has been shown that honest [[placebos]] are often just as effective, implying that it may not be necessary to [[believe]] our myths [[literally]] for their [[metanarrative]] to still be powerful.

	The fact that our experience of [[subjective]] [[reality]] can be changed by our [[beliefs]] is not evidence that [[reality]] itself is [[subjective]], but that is the conclusion many people draw from it. To ~~paraphrase~~ [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rbKWh2-KZg C. Thi Nguyen], "I'm [[The Gambler\|more sure]] about the existence of this coffee cup than I am about my ability to understand complex [[philosophical]] arguments against it" (see [[The Gambler]]).		The fact that our experience of [[subjective]] [[reality]] can be changed by our [[beliefs]] is not evidence that [[reality]] itself is [[subjective]], but that is the conclusion many people draw from it. To quote [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rbKWh2-KZg C. Thi Nguyen], "I'm [[The Gambler\|more sure]] about the existence of this coffee cup than I am about my ability to understand complex [[philosophical]] arguments against it" (see [[The Gambler]]).
	{{#ev:youtube\|https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBU1K-HmP1M\|\|center\|Is there an objective reality outside of our beliefts?\|frame}}		{{#ev:youtube\|https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBU1K-HmP1M\|\|center\|Is there an objective reality outside of our beliefts?\|frame}}
	<br>This video presents a more [[Rational\|rationalist]] perspective.		<br>This video presents a more [[Rational\|rationalist]] perspective.

Fractalguy at 12:24, 6 January 2025

2025-01-06T12:24:57Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:24, 6 January 2025
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	This short video is a good example of the argument that [[subjective]] [[reality]] takes priority over the objective, and uses the [[placebo effect]] as an example. However, there is still an objective reality in the [[brain]] that produces that experience from the action of [[neurons]], and the [[placebo effect]] doesn't just make you "feel" better, it produces chemical changes in the body. Otherwise there would be nothing to feel! Plus, it has been shown that honest [[placebos]] are often just as effective, implying that it may not be necessary to [[believe]] our myths [[literally]] for their [[metanarrative]] to still be powerful.		This short video is a good example of the argument that [[subjective]] [[reality]] takes priority over the objective, and uses the [[placebo effect]] as an example. However, there is still an objective reality in the [[brain]] that produces that experience from the action of [[neurons]], and the [[placebo effect]] doesn't just make you "feel" better, it produces chemical changes in the body. Otherwise there would be nothing to feel! Plus, it has been shown that honest [[placebos]] are often just as effective, implying that it may not be necessary to [[believe]] our myths [[literally]] for their [[metanarrative]] to still be powerful.

	The fact that our experience of [[subjective]] [[reality]] can be changed by our [[beliefs]] is not evidence that [[reality]] itself is [[subjective]], but that is the conclusion many people draw from it.		The fact that our experience of [[subjective]] [[reality]] can be changed by our [[beliefs]] is not evidence that [[reality]] itself is [[subjective]], but that is the conclusion many people draw from it. To paraphrase [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rbKWh2-KZg C. Thi Nguyen], "I'm [[The Gambler\|more sure]] about the existence of this coffee cup than I am about my ability to understand complex [[philosophical]] arguments against it" (see [[The Gambler]]).
	{{#ev:youtube\|https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBU1K-HmP1M\|\|center\|Is there an objective reality outside of our beliefts?\|frame}}		{{#ev:youtube\|https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBU1K-HmP1M\|\|center\|Is there an objective reality outside of our beliefts?\|frame}}
	<br>This video presents a more [[Rational\|rationalist]] perspective.		<br>This video presents a more [[Rational\|rationalist]] perspective.

Fractalguy at 13:45, 5 January 2025

2025-01-05T13:45:57Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:45, 5 January 2025
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	== Beauty is Truth and Vice Versa ==		== Beauty is Truth and Vice Versa ==

	~~If [[Beauty]] is Truth and Truth Beauty, then [[Fractal Geometry of God\|Fractals]] represent~~ the ~~essence of both.<blockquote>''"Truth is beautiful, without doubt; but so are lies."'' -~~[[~~wikipedia:Ralph_Waldo_Emerson\|Ralph Waldo Emerson~~]]~~</blockquote>{{#ev:youtube\|https://www~~.~~youtube.com/watch?v=iHkX67Ijuok\|\|center\|Keats's Ode on a Grecian Urn\|frame}}~~		See the [[beauty]] page for your Keats.

	== Objectively Good Music ==		== Objectively Good Music ==

Fractalguy at 22:44, 4 January 2025

2025-01-04T22:44:37Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:44, 4 January 2025
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	<br>This video presents a more [[Rational\|rationalist]] perspective.		<br>This video presents a more [[Rational\|rationalist]] perspective.
	{{#ev:youtube\|https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J-0YJ_rVag\|\|center\|Is There Objective Truth? Or Is Reality Subjective, Or a Social Construct?\|frame}}		{{#ev:youtube\|https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J-0YJ_rVag\|\|center\|Is There Objective Truth? Or Is Reality Subjective, Or a Social Construct?\|frame}}

			== Does Objective Morality Exist? ==
			See the [[Ethics#Peterson, Harris, and Objective Morality\|Ethics]] page for a discussion of objective [[morality]] based on the commonly referenced ideas of [[Jordan Peterson]], [[wikipedia:Sam_Harris\|Sam Harris]], and their many reaction videos.

	== Beauty is Truth and Vice Versa ==		== Beauty is Truth and Vice Versa ==

Fractalguy at 22:42, 4 January 2025

2025-01-04T22:42:07Z

@@ Line 11: / Line 11: @@
 <br>This video presents a more [[Rational|rationalist]] perspective.
 {{#ev:youtube|https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J-0YJ_rVag||center|Is There Objective Truth? Or Is Reality Subjective, Or a Social Construct?|frame}}
 == Beauty is Truth and Vice Versa ==

Fractalguy: /* Peterson, Harris, and Objective Morality */

2025-01-04T22:00:02Z

Peterson, Harris, and Objective Morality

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:00, 4 January 2025
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	The [[utilitarian]] [[ethics]] of [[metaculture]] avoids these criticisms by recognizing the [[subjective]] nature of self-reporting [[happiness]] and measuring it on the aggregate instead of the individual level. We can know statistically whether one [[society]] or [[culture]] is [[happier]] than another, and whether changes to various policies or beliefs have an impact on that measure. It doesn't claim an objective [[morality]], but rather one that can be [[Self-correcting\|improved over time]] with study and comparison. If an "objective" [[morality]] exists it can only be approached and never reached, and each moral grey area must be considered individually--no simple rules apply universally (see [[Gödel]]).		The [[utilitarian]] [[ethics]] of [[metaculture]] avoids these criticisms by recognizing the [[subjective]] nature of self-reporting [[happiness]] and measuring it on the aggregate instead of the individual level. We can know statistically whether one [[society]] or [[culture]] is [[happier]] than another, and whether changes to various policies or beliefs have an impact on that measure. It doesn't claim an objective [[morality]], but rather one that can be [[Self-correcting\|improved over time]] with study and comparison. If an "objective" [[morality]] exists it can only be approached and never reached, and each moral grey area must be considered individually--no simple rules apply universally (see [[Gödel]]).

	It also takes a [[perspective]] that fundamentally opposes [[war]] and the use of [[power]] to enforce [[ideology]], and that all [[religions]] and [[cultures]] should be embraced. The argument could be made that certain passages in the Quran form a [[generating equation]] that create a pattern of violence, and significant text could be dedicated to supporting that argument. However, it is inherently divisive and against the [[Perspective\|spirit]] of [[universalism]] that [[metaculture]] is striving for. But even if there was strong evidence to support such a view (not saying there is), there would be absolutely no implication that [[discrimination]] or [[violence]] could ever be an acceptable response to it.		The [[happiness]] page provides a resolution for [[wikipedia:Is–ought_problem\|Hume's is/ought]] problem that Harris doesn't address in a satisfactory way.

			The [[metaculture]] [[wiki]] also takes a [[perspective]] that fundamentally opposes [[war]] and the use of [[power]] to enforce [[ideology]], and that all [[religions]] and [[cultures]] should be embraced. The argument could be made that certain passages in the Quran form a [[generating equation]] that create a pattern of violence, and significant text could be dedicated to supporting that argument. However, it is inherently divisive and against the [[Perspective\|spirit]] of [[universalism]] that [[metaculture]] is striving for. But even if there was strong evidence to support such a view (not saying there is), there would be absolutely no implication that [[discrimination]] or [[violence]] could ever be an acceptable response to it.

	So, instead of the [[perspective]] that "Western [[culture]] is objectively better than others because we invented [[science]] and [[democracy]]" it's more like "[[Science]] allows people of all [[cultures]] to discover their shared humanity and speak about it with a common [[language]]. Let's use this to adopt a [[universal]] system of [[ethics]] so we don't kill each other, and we can solve global problems like [[climate change]] together." It's looking at the same set of facts from a different [[perspective]].		So, instead of the [[perspective]] that "Western [[culture]] is objectively better than others because we invented [[science]] and [[democracy]]" it's more like "[[Science]] allows people of all [[cultures]] to discover their shared humanity and speak about it with a common [[language]]. Let's use this to adopt a [[universal]] system of [[ethics]] so we don't kill each other, and we can solve global problems like [[climate change]] together." It's looking at the same set of facts from a different [[perspective]].