Atheism - Revision history

Fractalguy at 17:35, 30 November 2025

2025-11-30T17:35:56Z

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	This is also explored on the [[literalism]] page.		This is also explored on the [[literalism]] page.

			This video from Genetically Modified Skeptic explores the differences between [[theology]] that advocates [[hierarchy]] and [[authoritarianism]] versus liberation [[theology]] that advocates for [[humanist]] values. We need to build coalitions with the latter in order to oppose the rising [[power]] of the former.

			{{#ev:youtube\|https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd76uNMpXIc\|\|center\|Yes, American Christianity is Cruel on Purpose\|frame}}

	== Denial Versus Definition ==		== Denial Versus Definition ==

Fractalguy: /* Coalition Building */

2025-11-30T15:56:10Z

Coalition Building

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:56, 30 November 2025
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	== Coalition Building ==		== Coalition Building ==
			[[File:Jesus-teaching-verus-capitalism-christian-nationalism.jpg\|right\|frameless\|400x400px]]
	Atheism can never build coalitions with [[religious]] [[institutions]] due to the inherent denial of their core [[belief system]] that atheism presents. It is fundamentally incompatible with [[religion]], and any movement for [[progress]] that is organized around atheism, or even [[associated]] with it like [[Secular humanist\|humanists]] are, will be unable to draw support from the [[religious]] community that still forms the vast majority of the human [[population]].		Atheism can never build coalitions with [[religious]] [[institutions]] due to the inherent denial of their core [[belief system]] that atheism presents. It is fundamentally incompatible with [[religion]], and any movement for [[progress]] that is organized around atheism, or even [[associated]] with it like [[Secular humanist\|humanists]] are, will be unable to draw support from the [[religious]] community that still forms the vast majority of the human [[population]].

Fractalguy: /* Are Atheists Coming Back to Christianity? */

2025-02-23T12:25:12Z

Are Atheists Coming Back to Christianity?

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:25, 23 February 2025
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	It's certainly easier than creating a [[wiki]] to describe a new interpretation of [[spirituality]] that is compatible with [[materialism]] and hoping it one day leads to a [[community]]!		It's certainly easier than creating a [[wiki]] to describe a new interpretation of [[spirituality]] that is compatible with [[materialism]] and hoping it one day leads to a [[community]]!

	This video explains many of the dynamics at work, such as [[contrarianism]] and [[out-group]] biases, that have led many "[[rational]]" atheists down the anti-[[science]] rabbit holes of [[conspiracy theories]], vaccine and [[climate change]] denial, and [[~~racism~~]].		This video explains many of the dynamics at work, such as [[contrarianism]] and [[out-group]] biases, that have led many "[[rational]]" atheists down the anti-[[science]] rabbit holes of [[conspiracy theories]], vaccine and [[climate change]] denial, [[racism]], and a return to [[religious]] [[Dogma\|orthodoxy]].

	{{#ev:youtube\|https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3D4tMVaO7k\|\|center\|Why the Anti-Woke Right Has So Many Atheists\|frame}}		{{#ev:youtube\|https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3D4tMVaO7k\|\|center\|Why the Anti-Woke Right Has So Many Atheists\|frame}}

Fractalguy at 12:24, 23 February 2025

2025-02-23T12:24:12Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:24, 23 February 2025
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	It's certainly easier than creating a [[wiki]] to describe a new interpretation of [[spirituality]] that is compatible with [[materialism]] and hoping it one day leads to a [[community]]!		It's certainly easier than creating a [[wiki]] to describe a new interpretation of [[spirituality]] that is compatible with [[materialism]] and hoping it one day leads to a [[community]]!

			This video explains many of the dynamics at work, such as [[contrarianism]] and [[out-group]] biases, that have led many "[[rational]]" atheists down the anti-[[science]] rabbit holes of [[conspiracy theories]], vaccine and [[climate change]] denial, and [[racism]].

			{{#ev:youtube\|https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3D4tMVaO7k\|\|center\|Why the Anti-Woke Right Has So Many Atheists\|frame}}

	== Getting Closer ==		== Getting Closer ==

Fractalguy at 23:19, 11 February 2025

2025-02-11T23:19:58Z

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	[[File:Atheism-symbol-agnostic-asexual-pansexual-contrarian-spirituality.png\|thumb\|A is for Atheism]]		[[File:Atheism-symbol-agnostic-asexual-pansexual-contrarian-spirituality.png\|thumb\|A is for Atheism]]
	[[wikipedia:Atheism\|Atheism]] is distinct from [[Pantheism]], even though some [[philosophers]] have tried to claim otherwise. Atheists too often forget that the [[goal]] of [[rhetoric]] is [[persuasion]], and fail to [[Perspective\|frame their ideas]] in ways that are palatable to the [[spiritual]] majority.<blockquote>''"I once wanted to become an atheist, but I gave up - they have no holidays."'' -[[wikipedia:Henny_Youngman\|Henny Youngman]]</blockquote>		[[wikipedia:Atheism\|Atheism]] is distinct from [[Pantheism]], even though some [[philosophers]] have tried to claim otherwise. Atheists too often forget that the [[goal]] of [[rhetoric]] is [[persuasion]], and fail to [[Perspective\|frame their ideas]] in ways that are palatable to the [[spiritual]] majority.<blockquote>''"I once wanted to become an atheist, but I gave up - they have no holidays."'' -[[wikipedia:Henny_Youngman\|Henny Youngman]]</blockquote>To be fair, [https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/List_of_secular_holidays there are a ton of secular holidays]. But, having a sense of the [[sacred]], and [[connection]] to [[tradition]] and [[ritual]] can infuse holidays with a deeper sense of [[meaning]] that can't be achieved when the [[mind]] is focused on denial, deconstructing, and debunking instead of [[Wonder\|delighting]].

	== Atheism Versus Pantheism ==		== Atheism Versus Pantheism ==

Fractalguy at 23:13, 11 February 2025

2025-02-11T23:13:29Z

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	Atheists tend to agree with [[fundamentalists]] in that the [[literal]] interpretation of [[scripture]] is assumed. Atheists reject the possibility that [[religion]] is based on [[allegory]] because that would not allow for the superficial spurning of the [[supernatural]] and smug sense of self-satisfaction that it brings.		Atheists tend to agree with [[fundamentalists]] in that the [[literal]] interpretation of [[scripture]] is assumed. Atheists reject the possibility that [[religion]] is based on [[allegory]] because that would not allow for the superficial spurning of the [[supernatural]] and smug sense of self-satisfaction that it brings.
			[[File:Impossible-its-raining-men-neil-degrasse-tyson.jpeg\|right\|frameless\|350x350px]]
	Since [[Pantheism]] and most [[theology]] agree that [[scripture]] is [[allegory]], it is atheists that set themselves apart in their adherence to [[literalism]]. The line of demarcation is between [[literalism]] and [[allegory]], not between [[materialism]] and the [[supernatural]].		Since [[Pantheism]] and most [[theology]] agree that [[scripture]] is [[allegory]], it is atheists that set themselves apart in their adherence to [[literalism]]. The line of demarcation is between [[literalism]] and [[allegory]], not between [[materialism]] and the [[supernatural]].

	While atheists on [[social media]] have gone a long way to move the [~~https~~:~~//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/~~Overton_window overton window] regarding discussions of [[religion]], their [[point of view]] is inherently [[contrarian]] and therefore not a [[philosophy]] that can be positively ascribed to.		While atheists on [[social media]] have gone a long way to move the [[wikipedia:Overton_window\|overton window]] regarding discussions of [[religion]], their [[point of view]] is inherently [[contrarian]] and therefore not a [[philosophy]] that can be positively ascribed to.

	What's the main difference between atheism and [[pantheism]]? Atheists believe that the [[material]] [[universe]] is all that exists, and [[science]] is the best way to understand it. [[Pantheists]] say [[wikipedia:Yes,_and...\|yes, and]] '''''that is [[Evolution\|fucking]] [[beautiful]], [[Wonder\|awesome]] and [[Inspiration\|inspiring]] and worthy of celebration!'''''		What's the main difference between atheism and [[pantheism]]? Atheists believe that the [[material]] [[universe]] is all that exists, and [[science]] is the best way to understand it. [[Pantheists]] say [[wikipedia:Yes,_and...\|yes, and]] '''''that is [[Evolution\|fucking]] [[beautiful]], [[Wonder\|awesome]] and [[Inspiration\|inspiring]] and worthy of celebration!'''''

Fractalguy at 23:04, 26 January 2025

2025-01-26T23:04:57Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:04, 26 January 2025
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	[[File:Atheism-symbol-agnostic-asexual-pansexual-contrarian-spirituality.png\|thumb\|A is for Atheism]]		[[File:Atheism-symbol-agnostic-asexual-pansexual-contrarian-spirituality.png\|thumb\|A is for Atheism]]
	[[wikipedia:Atheism\|Atheism]] is distinct from [[Pantheism]], even though some [[philosophers]] have tried to claim otherwise. Atheists too often forget that the [[goal]] of [[rhetoric]] is [[persuasion]], and fail to [[Perspective\|frame their ideas]] in ways that are palatable to the [[spiritual]] majority.<blockquote>''"I once wanted to become an atheist, but I gave up - they have no holidays."'' -Henny Youngman</blockquote>		[[wikipedia:Atheism\|Atheism]] is distinct from [[Pantheism]], even though some [[philosophers]] have tried to claim otherwise. Atheists too often forget that the [[goal]] of [[rhetoric]] is [[persuasion]], and fail to [[Perspective\|frame their ideas]] in ways that are palatable to the [[spiritual]] majority.<blockquote>''"I once wanted to become an atheist, but I gave up - they have no holidays."'' -[[wikipedia:Henny_Youngman\|Henny Youngman]]</blockquote>

	== Atheism Versus Pantheism ==		== Atheism Versus Pantheism ==

Fractalguy: /* Coalition Building */

2025-01-15T22:45:37Z

Coalition Building

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:45, 15 January 2025
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	== Coalition Building ==		== Coalition Building ==

	Atheism can never build coalitions with [[religious]] [[institutions]] due to the inherent denial of their core [[belief system]] that atheism presents. It is fundamentally incompatible with [[religion]], and any movement for [[progress]] that is organized around atheism, or even ~~loosely~~ associated with it like [[~~progressives~~]] are, will be unable to draw support from the [[religious]] community that still forms the vast majority of the human [[population]].		Atheism can never build coalitions with [[religious]] [[institutions]] due to the inherent denial of their core [[belief system]] that atheism presents. It is fundamentally incompatible with [[religion]], and any movement for [[progress]] that is organized around atheism, or even [[associated]] with it like [[Secular humanist\|humanists]] are, will be unable to draw support from the [[religious]] community that still forms the vast majority of the human [[population]].

	The formation of the [[universal in-group]] would be impossible if denial of [[religion]] and [[spirituality]] are part of it. If the conflict is between [[god]] versus not [[god]], there will eventually be [[war]]. If it's between a magic [[god]] and a [[universe]] [[god]], a peaceful transition towards cooperation is possible.		The formation of the [[universal in-group]] would be impossible if denial of [[religion]] and [[spirituality]] are part of it. If the conflict is between [[god]] versus not [[god]], there will eventually be [[war]]. If it's between a magic [[god]] and a [[universe]] [[god]], a peaceful transition towards cooperation is possible.

Fractalguy: /* Atheism Versus Pantheism */

2025-01-15T22:43:34Z

Atheism Versus Pantheism

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:43, 15 January 2025
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	Atheists tend to agree with [[fundamentalists]] in that the [[literal]] interpretation of [[scripture]] is assumed. Atheists reject the possibility that [[religion]] is based on [[allegory]] because that would not allow for the superficial spurning of the [[supernatural]] and smug sense of self-satisfaction that it brings.		Atheists tend to agree with [[fundamentalists]] in that the [[literal]] interpretation of [[scripture]] is assumed. Atheists reject the possibility that [[religion]] is based on [[allegory]] because that would not allow for the superficial spurning of the [[supernatural]] and smug sense of self-satisfaction that it brings.

	Since [[Pantheism]] and most [[theology]] agree that [[scripture]] is [[allegory]], it is atheists that set themselves apart in ~~there~~ adherence to [[literalism]]. The line of demarcation is between [[literalism]] and [[allegory]], not between [[materialism]] and the [[supernatural]].		Since [[Pantheism]] and most [[theology]] agree that [[scripture]] is [[allegory]], it is atheists that set themselves apart in their adherence to [[literalism]]. The line of demarcation is between [[literalism]] and [[allegory]], not between [[materialism]] and the [[supernatural]].

	While atheists on [[social media]] have gone a long way to move the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window overton window] regarding discussions of [[religion]], their [[point of view]] is inherently [[contrarian]] and therefore not a [[philosophy]] that can be positively ascribed to.		While atheists on [[social media]] have gone a long way to move the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window overton window] regarding discussions of [[religion]], their [[point of view]] is inherently [[contrarian]] and therefore not a [[philosophy]] that can be positively ascribed to.

Fractalguy: /* Are Atheists Coming Back to Christianity? */

2025-01-01T22:38:14Z

Are Atheists Coming Back to Christianity?

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:38, 1 January 2025
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	Of course, the majority of examples are ones like [[Jordan Peterson]], [[wikipedia:Russell_Brand\|Russell Brand]], and other right-wing [[grifters]] who have embraced Christianity in a cynical example of [https://www.neuroscienceof.com/human-nature-blog/audience-capture-psychology-economics-nickocado-keynes audience capture].		Of course, the majority of examples are ones like [[Jordan Peterson]], [[wikipedia:Russell_Brand\|Russell Brand]], and other right-wing [[grifters]] who have embraced Christianity in a cynical example of [https://www.neuroscienceof.com/human-nature-blog/audience-capture-psychology-economics-nickocado-keynes audience capture].

	Because of this, the atheists that these Christian converts leave behind ~~often~~ view their conversions skeptically, and often react as if a heresy has been committed, at least in the comments section.		Because of this, the atheists that these Christian converts leave behind tend to view their conversions skeptically, and often react as if a heresy has been committed, at least in the comments section.

	What we are actually seeing is [[cognitive development]] progressing on a global [[cultural]] scale. With the invention of the Internet, atheist ideas were no longer able to be suppressed and could be discussed openly for the first time in many places. This caused many people to undergo [[wikipedia:Deconstruction\|deconstruction]] of their [[religious]] [[beliefs]] simultaneously, moving them from the [[Literalism\|literalist]], mythical, magical level of [[cognitive development]] to the [[rational]]. But this is not the last step!		What we are actually seeing is [[cognitive development]] progressing on a global [[cultural]] scale. With the invention of the Internet, atheist ideas were no longer able to be suppressed and could be discussed openly for the first time in many places. This caused many people to undergo [[wikipedia:Deconstruction\|deconstruction]] of their [[religious]] [[beliefs]] simultaneously, moving them from the [[Literalism\|literalist]], mythical, magical level of [[cognitive development]] to the [[rational]]. But this is not the last step!

	As our experience grows, we encounter forms of spirituality that don't conform to the [[fundamentalism]] that atheists tend to assume is the norm. We realize that most people [[believe]] because of what it does for them [[emotionally]], and that their [[God Concept\|concept of god]] is usually more nuanced than the anthropomorphic straw man that is so easily debunked. At the very least it forces you to consider whether belief is an important [[psychological]] and [[Sociology\|sociological]] tool, even if it isn't ~~believable~~ [[literally]].		As our experience grows, we encounter forms of spirituality that don't conform to the [[fundamentalism]] that atheists tend to assume is the norm. We realize that most people [[believe]] because of what it does for them [[emotionally]], and that their [[God Concept\|concept of god]] is usually more nuanced than the anthropomorphic straw man that is so easily debunked. At the very least it forces you to consider whether [[belief]] is an important [[psychological]] and [[Sociology\|sociological]] tool, even if it isn't [[literally]] [[true]].

	The fact that so many are choosing Christianity rather than Buddhism or Reform Judaism which don't require [[belief]] in [[god]] is probably due more to the [[community]] aspect of [[religion]]. One of the things you learn as you get wiser is that having a large [[community]] you can count on is pretty great, and in the West the easiest way to get that is to be a Christian. It also doesn't hurt to join the popular [[religion]] if your income depends on the popularity of your content.		The fact that so many are choosing Christianity rather than Buddhism or Reform Judaism which don't require [[belief]] in [[god]] is probably due more to the [[community]] aspect of [[religion]]. One of the things you learn as you get wiser is that having a large [[community]] you can count on is pretty great, and in the West the easiest way to get that is to be a Christian. It also doesn't hurt to join the popular [[religion]] if your income depends on the popularity of your content.

	The thing is, when you have gone through the [[rational]] [[Cognitive development\|development stage]] and get to the point of reconstruction, you realize that it doesn't really matter which [[religion]] you practice since it's all [[allegory]] anyway. So why not join the popular one?		The thing is, when you have gone through the [[rational]] [[Cognitive development\|development stage]] and get to the point of [[wikipedia:Rational_reconstruction\|reconstruction]], you realize that it doesn't really matter which [[religion]] you practice since it's all [[allegory]] anyway. So why not join the popular one?

	It's certainly easier than creating a [[wiki]] to describe a new interpretation of [[spirituality]] that is compatible with [[materialism]] and hoping it one day leads to a [[community]]!		It's certainly easier than creating a [[wiki]] to describe a new interpretation of [[spirituality]] that is compatible with [[materialism]] and hoping it one day leads to a [[community]]!